Milk Makes a Comeback: Donna Berry on Dairy’s Reinvention

Reese Clark:

Hi everyone. Welcome to the Milk Theory Podcast. We are here at the A DPI conference, and I, I'm so excited to be sitting here with one of the most famous females in dairy. She's an oracle of all things industry trends. Donna Berry, welcome to Milk Theory.

Donna Berry:

Thank you so much for having me, Reese.

Reese Clark:

Absolutely. Now, everybody knows you here, but for someone who is just getting started in the industry, tell me a little bit about your journey, what your background is, and why milk and why dairy?

Donna Berry:

Well, it's a very good question, and the story is probably a little boring, but hey, you asked. So I am from Chicago, which is where we are. I am born and raised in the city. I am such an urban person that I don't even know how to step on a farm, but I've always loved dairy. And when I went to university and I'm a food science major, was introduced to the science of dairy and really just connected, just believed in the nutrition, the cows, the soil, the earth, just it's very maternal.

And there was just some kind of connection there. Now to help with the fact that I'm an urban girl, prior to the pandemic, I did used to volunteer at the farm in the zoo at Lincoln Park Zoo here. And I would teach kids about where food comes from, and I loved the story about dairy products, and I would always ask the question, where does chocolate milk come from? And these are city kids, and they would all say the store, oh my gosh. Wow. Or they'd say a brown cow, and then I would have to explain it to them, explain it. But yeah, no, I, 30 years of being in dairy.

Reese Clark:

30 years! And you've seen probably a lot of growth and innovation far beyond just milk at this point. What has been the most pivotal development over your career that you've seen as to where we've arrived and where we're going?

Donna Berry:

Technology as in the nature of manufacturing and processing ingredients, food products that has just really, there have been so many advancements in the last 20 years, and also an industry that was willing to explore these technologies to create value added products. As they say, it's not your granddaddy's farm anymore or granddaddy's processing, and it took an entire generation to kind of retire and let the newbies come in, but everyone's embracing it. So the biggest change, I guess would be is that it's not just white stuff anymore, and it's a great thing, and we're here, yes, we're here, we're here. And somehow milk and dairy made it to the top of the inverted food pyramid. I have to tell you that when that happened and when whole milk got back into schools, I cried.

Reese Clark:

No way.

Donna Berry:

I was like, I have no purpose anymore. Because I'm like, this is what I've been wanting, and consumption figures are up, production figures are up, innovation is up. I'm like, I have no purpose. And then I realized, yes, I do, because we can't let this momentum stop. We have to keep going, and we are on a great trajectory to keeping dairy really pretty darn cool.

Reese Clark:

Absolutely. I love that. I was actually going to ask you about that inverted food pyramid. You've a key influencer in this space for helping milk probably arrive there over the past 30 years, so that's pretty amazing. Tell me about how significant that change is now that they flipped it on top. What's the real world impact? You said they're putting in schools. What else?

Donna Berry:

I mean, the real world is you could tell consumers what to do. They could know what they should be doing, and are they actually doing it? I don't know, but I heard this from a millennial, or actually I guess a young millennial who is an entrepreneur startup in the dairy space, and I'm not going to say names or brands, but he said to me, dairy is back and where it should be. He goes, and shame on all of the plant-based people for duping us. He said, as a younger consumer, he's like, he grew up in a household where his mom believed in plant-based, this and that, and cutting back on dairy and milk is the reason why you have acne, so stop consuming it or this and that. And he goes, and I was duped. I was sold on, what did he call it? Food shaming or food washing. Food washing. Food washing. Interesting. That's love that. Oh, food washing. Yeah. And so he goes, and people aren't stupid anymore with social media. That messaging gets out really quickly, and he goes, and so thankfully, the correct science, the science is there supporting dairy, and the social media presence is there and dairy is where it should be. So

Reese Clark:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. What would you say about, that's interesting that you brought up the plant-based thing. They've had very compelling storylines that they've utilized, and what did you think the dairy industry can or should do differently? Do they need to be more active on social media and their promotions, or is it a branding thing? Is it a messaging thing? The science sounds like it is settled or We've figured out a lot of components in relation to that, but in terms of messaging, what are we missing?

Donna Berry:

We can never stop the communication cycle, which is why I am not out of a job. Yes, because constant, and it's also constant reminder. I gave this example a few weeks ago in the blog I wrote, and also when I spoke at the ice cream conference a couple weeks ago, and I gave the example of about 25 years, 25, 30 years ago when ready to drink refrigerated orange juice was really gaining traction, and those manufacturers decided to take on fluid milk in the breakfast space. So what did they start doing? They started adding calcium and vitamin D to orange juice so that people who didn't want dairy, they would still get their bone building nutrients. Well, up until that point, dairy and fluid milk specifically owned the bone building, bone building message, and then these orange juice people came in and guess what? The dairy industry did? Nothing.

Reese Clark:

They sat on it.

Donna Berry:

They just kind of were like, oh, well, this really stinks that they're doing it, but what they needed to do was go back and get that science and put it out there and show how the dairy matrix and how those nutrients being delivered through milk make a difference versus putting calcium and vitamin D into orange juice. You actually need the fat in milk to better digest the fat soluble vitamin D, but we didn't do anything. But guess what? Now we are doing stuff. And so that messaging needs to continue, continue, and continue, and the research is still, so much of it is still in its infancy as far as the dairy matrix goes, and how dairy delivers nutrition differently than those nutrients in a pill, but we're getting there. So yeah, there's no slowing down.

Reese Clark:

Absolutely. Let's talk a little about those nutrients and the conference that you recently spoke at and some of the topics you covered. One of 'em was protein and proteins. It's a hot topic right now. It's everybody's favorite. I read in a recent blog of yours that you're talking about people who have demanded just more protein, whatever at all costs kind of thing, and now there's this thing called protein optimization. What is that?

Donna Berry:

Well, for starters, protein still comes with calories. So people are eating all this protein, and depending upon the delivery vehicle of the protein, they're still getting maybe unnecessary calories. I hate to say this and to pick on any one brand, but I really have to do this. Dorito should not have protein added to them. That is wrong. Pop-Tarts should not be protein fortified. There's a space for these foods. This should not exist. So I mean, if you're eating Doritos, you're still getting a bunch of calories and stuff. So what is starting to happen or starting to evolve is the emphasis on the protein quality, the nutrient density of the food that is delivering that protein, and that's where we're going. What I find really interesting is that for a long time, this, well, it's been taking place in the sports nutrition market where specific amino acids are being called out on ingredient labels because especially bodybuilders, they want to make sure they have the brand's chain amino acids. So this is being called out on labels, but in sports nutrition, starting to see it showing up in mainstream food products.

Reese Clark:

Really,

Donna Berry:

Quite a few brands in Europe are doing it mainly on nutritional beverages, but meant for the common folk, like a meal replacement shake or something like that. And they're showing the amino acid profile so that consumers can get a better grasp on the quality of the protein, and they can optimize their intake versus against the calorie content of a product. Again, Doritos shouldn't have protein that says it all.

Reese Clark:

Yeah, that's an interesting combination as well. I mean, tell me a little bit about what this "newstalgia" thing is that you're picking up on. What does that even mean?

Donna Berry:

Well, it's actually been going on pretty much since COVID, kind of like when sourdough came back and everyone was just really into making sourdough bread, and I can tell you I never did it.

Reese Clark:

Neither did I.

Donna Berry:

It sounds like way too many carbs for me, and I had this nightmare of all this bread baby, and you don't know what to do with it. That's what was happening, but that was bringing something from the olden days back. And so nostalgia is nostalgic foods or concepts, but with a more edgy twist to them right now. And the idea of being like, you want to try something new, we have adventurous palettes for new flavors, different cuisines, even cooking styles, but in a familiar format maybe. So you're not as vested into trying something completely different, and that's the nostalgia and it's showing up. What's really interesting is it's showing up even in the non-alcoholic beverage space, and that actually might even be one of the primary drivers of it too, because you're trying to make something like a non-alcoholic pina colada, but pina coladas have been around forever, but you're not going to ever get that perfect taste. So what do you do? You throw in a little twist so that it's pina colada, but with a banana, a caramel banana swirl.

So, then all of a sudden you're not that expectation. Your expectation of a pina colada isn't what the real pina colada tastes like because of this caramelized banana swirl. So it's something familiar with something new, a twist, and that's all about "newstalgia."

Reese Clark:

I get it. Okay. That is such an amazing term that I'm going to be using more of the future.

Donna Berry:

Well, like I say, it's kind of to hide the fact that the product is a little maybe better for you or that kind of thing.

Reese Clark:

Okay. Yeah, totally. What do you mean when you say now people, everyone loves chocolate. Where are you seeing that into industry chocolate cravings with bits and pieces?

Donna Berry:

Well, that is more because of the economic issue right now.

Reese Clark:

Okay. Yes.

Donna Berry:

So chocolate ice cream, I mean, granted, there's still full chocolate, triple chocolate, double chocolate, ice creams and products out there, but they're really a little pricey right now because of the economics of chocolate. So what formulators are doing is turning to creative ways of just using bits and pieces of chocolate to satisfy those chocolate cravings.

Reese Clark:

I see. Okay. Inserting that format. Okay. Okay, that makes total sense. Now, I know you're a big advocate for women's health as well. How is dairy supporting that?

Donna Berry:

Well, first of all, I am going to take one step back and just say, when I was talking about the whole bone building nutrient package when I was a little girl, I can remember seeing, and this is not in any way meant to be offensive to anyone, but there were a lot of old people. Well, there were always a lot of old people, but a lot of old women who were completely hunched back because they had osteoporosis or sarcopenia, and their bones were fragile and they were hunched. Now, we were taught very young, my generation, and I'm almost 60 years old, but we were taught, consume your dairy for bone density, consume, consume, consume. You look around today, you're not seeing people with those issues or not many of those many people with those issues. It was a very familiar sighting back in the day.

So bringing that back to women's health, I really feel like it's very critical that that messaging starts getting communicated again. It's almost like we forgot how important it was, and it needs to be brought back to life, and it's there, but in a much more aggressive fashion.

Reese Clark:

Really.? Okay.

Donna Berry:

So in addition to all of that, the whole fat whole milk you're getting, we're getting nutrients in there that we don't even know that we're getting yet because we haven't done, the science isn't there yet, but the bioactives, the different little molecules that are present, like milk, fat lo membrane, which is going to be present in home milk that has positive effects on hormonal replacements.

Reese Clark:

Okay, gotcha. Okay.

Donna Berry:

But we don't even know some of that, and so it's still a lot of that research is in its infancy, but there's been some data out there, so there's a lot to do. I mean, again, like I say, dairy is very maternal and it's, there's something about it.

Reese Clark:

Yeah, there's something about it, and there's a way to message that where it could fit naturally into women's health, and that's amazing. The extent at which it can support it. That is really, really fascinating. My goodness. Well, I know you're very busy, but I have just a few more questions. Oh, sure. What are you seeing now in terms of just in the world of ice cream, our sponsors, Idaho Milk products is actually building an ice cream plant, and they're focused on novelties and along with a better for you type ice cream. Where do you see just the world of ice cream right now and where it's going?

Donna Berry:

Well, first of all, that's a great place and space to be in.

Reese Clark:

Okay.

Donna Berry:

Novelty, single serve is a great size to provide either limited amount of calories in order to satisfy a sweet craving, or if you're going on the more functional health avenue, it then also guarantees that you're delivering the promised amount of nutrition. So whereas ice cream is always going to, I shouldn't say always going to, it should always still be delicious. Yeah. We can't make it. There are some categories like nutrition bars where people are willing to compromise somewhat on taste just because they know they're getting all this great nutrition. Ice cream just can't be that way. It is meant to be enjoyed, but you can do so much with it. And there's a brand out there right now that I know has four ounce cups of probiotic and prebiotic enriched ice cream, and it's a higher protein product as well, but they're not skimping necessarily on the calories. They're still putting a layer of chocolate on the top of it. So when I talk bits and pieces, they're still getting that in there, and there's still an indulgence factor with the flavors that they're using, but they're putting all this other health stuff in there, and the beauty of that four ounce cup is you're getting what they're promising you, like X amount of probiotics, five grams of fiber, 15 grams of protein. So definitely transparency. Definitely. I see a lot more going on in the novelty space and also formulating or designing ice cream products, maybe even for different day parts. Why couldn't you have different,

Reese Clark:

Say that again,

Donna Berry:

Dayparts. Okay. Why couldn't you have breakfast ice cream with fruit? With Granola?

Reese Clark:

Absolutely. I'm down for that. Let's start a movement. That'd be perfect.

Donna Berry:

Maybe that's my new purpose!

Reese Clark:

On my pancakes!

Donna Berry:

Ice cream!

Reese Clark:

Yes. Ice cream leading the march!

Donna Berry:

Ice cream for breakfast!

Reese Clark:

I love it. Ice cream. Yeah. That's great.

Donna Berry:

I go from getting whole milk into schools to now pushing ice cream for breakfast. I'm not sure that will make it out of the food into the school system.

Reese Clark:

Yeah. That might be a push. Yeah. You never know. Hey, anything. Anything's possible. Anything's possible with dairy. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Donna, this has been absolutely wonderful to have you. Where can people find you and your content if they don't know, as I said, they should, you're a cornerstone in this industry on staying on top of what's new.

Donna Berry:

Well, I do like to say that I am, my business is B2B, and I really try to keep consumers away from it as well, but there are many that still read my stuff because it's unavoidable. Absolutely. My newsletter is Daily Dose of Dairy, and the website is Barry on dairy.com and Barry, as every time I check into a hotel or a place I go like a strawberry, a blueberry, a blackberry, raspberry, but I'm a Donna Berry. Donna Berry. I love it. Yes. So it's B-E-R-R-Y and yeah, the newsletter is free. I basically provide readers info on new products, innovations, ingredient technologies, marketing, merchandising, distribution, anything that just keeps it going.

Reese Clark:

Absolutely.

Donna Berry:

And Idaho Milk Products is one of my great sponsors and supporters, so thank you so very much.

Reese Clark:

Absolutely,

Donna Berry:

And thank you so much for what you guys are actually contributing to the industry too, because you guys are on the forefront of innovation with your circular manufacturing of ingredients and your sustainability efforts, and

Reese Clark:

Thank you. Yes.

Donna Berry:

That's the future of dairy and it's pretty darn cool.

Reese Clark:

Absolutely. Well, thank you. We totally agree, and we're so happy to have you, and we appreciate you taking the time. This has been the Milk Theory Podcast with Donna Berry. We will see you again soon.